Trigger Alert: This column references sexual violence.

What if the first time you realized your 11-year-old had been raped was when she started showing signs of pregnancy and then died from complications? It happened in Australia and Paraguay. Who can forget the 10-year-old Oklahoma rape victim who fled to Indiana for an abortion? Last year, a 13-year-old Mississippi rape victim was forced to carry to term and is now a seventh grade mother. In Texas, a child rape victim’s parents can be sued if they traverse certain local Texas roads to leave the state for an abortion.

Craig Wiesner

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(26) comments

Renabk

Thank you, Craig. The impact of SCOTUS’ overturning of Roe v Wade is devastating to the women and girls unable to get abortions. It is hard to imagine a world in which child rape victims are forced to give birth, yet here we are … for now. Fortunately, people are paying attention and will continue to use their vote as their voice.

Jorg

Pretty much as expected, Craig: some of your usual suspects just don’t get the very important point you are making. The question remains, though, is it because they don’t understand, or that they refuse to understand and simply don’t want to agree with you, for some strange reason? It should be so easy to understand this old problem, still with us, unfortunately!

Not So Common

Hey Jorg, being responsible for one's decision is not punishment, it's called owning it. And KT, an embryo can't live outside the womb, neither can a premature baby, or a three month old baby, or a 12 month old baby or even a two year old baby without assistance. So there is no line when killing a child who Is NOT given a choice.

Jorg, fighting for the life of a child does NOT mean that those who fight for life hate women, but it does mean people who think like you hate life and the child

Westy, very very, very few women, NOT MEN OR TRANSGENDERS, face dangers when pregnant or giving birth. For those WOMEN, NOT MEN OR TRANSGENDERS, when a woman's truly in peril, of course her life should prevail if that's what she wants. I can't imagine many loving women would NOT give up their life for their miracle child. But I guess we know you would

There is probably no greater love than for one to lay down their life for another, Jesus Christ did if for ALL, even for those whose hearts are filled with hate and could so easily and callously kill a child. And that greater love would be astonishing when a woman who was horribly raped and became pregnant, decided to allow her child to live.

Jorg

You mean that a girl or woman is responsible for the rape and the consequences? That's Not So Common at all in more educated, less religiously infested circles!

Not So Common

Jorg, I did not say that a woman is responsible when raped, and I'm sure you know that. I said "And that greater love would be astonishing when a woman who was horribly raped and became pregnant, decided to allow her child to live."

Jorg

Yes! But that should be HER decision, not someone else's, - and certainly not someone apparently with a problem with women, perhaps due to too many embarrassing rejections? I have noticed that a certain category of insecure guys have trouble being rejected by what they wrongly perceive as being the "weaker" sex.

Westy

Hi Jorg, that is exactly the worldview of the religious ultra-right. They do consider women and girls to be the responsible party when they are raped. The examples are endless. They will deny it now, as they have denied that their eventual goal is the denial of access to birth control methods. (As soon as they got abortion bans passed they moved on to denying access to birth control. It's a pattern.) And they already deny that many rapes are in fact rapes, for example if the woman or girl was drinking or doing drugs, then she should expect to be raped, ditto if she knows casually, is dating, living with, or married to the perpetrator. If she is unconscious in an alley, who is to blame Brock Turner for raping her? Certainly not the judge in the case who sentenced him to a mere 6 months in jail.

Ray Fowler

Hello, Craig

After a series of “what if” questions, your column concludes with a call to action during this election year, but “what if” we tried to find some common ground on the issue of abortion? I have been following commentary in these pages for several years, and I don’t recall any DJ reader advocating that rape victims carry an unborn child to term. We both know there must be someone out there who does, however, DJ readers… regardless of their political orientation… appear to approve abortion in cases of rape and medical necessity. Common ground not cruelty.

A majority of Americans believe abortion should be legal during the first trimester. That’s not just cases of rape victims, women in medical distress or the unborn with severe developmental abnormalities… that’s support for ALL women who may become pregnant. Sounds like more common ground.

When it comes to abortion later in a pregnancy, a majority of Americans believe abortion should not be legal. Here’s where folks on the extreme left side of the aisle IMO have no interest in trying to find common ground. They insist on abortion upon request. They are as intractable as someone who wants to deny all abortions. So, while there is common ground on this issue, the extremists on both sides are not content with just having their say… they want to have their way, too. No common ground there.

Maybe we can find some more common ground… you wrote that someone’s religious belief that life begins at conception can guide their decision about abortion, but not the decisions of others. There are 8 billion people living on our planet. Of those 8 billion people, how many would you say are living today that were not conceived? If those 8 billion lives did not begin at the moment of conception, then when do you believe life begins?

Terence Y

We have a lot of early birds who have already gotten the worms. Well written, MichKosk, Dirk van Ulden, willallen, and Not So Common. No need to add anything as your responses hold up easily to the conflation, hysterical screeching, and hypocrisy from those on the rabid left.

Westy

Thank you Craig. I would add that women in those states banning abortion who want to have a child need to mover to another state before considering it because they risk their lives. Pregnant people in distress and at risk of sepsis, are being sent home from emergency room and told to return when they are closer to death. Pregnant patients have become radioactive to doctors, who now risk prison time for providing treatment.

Dirk van Ulden

Well Craig - another one of these single issue election slogans. Is that all we need to talk about? Abortions? Blaming Trump for appointing Supreme Court judges who returned the final say of abortion policies to each State? Another cheap, scare tactic while you and your ilk are totally ignoring the thousands of girls and women being abused due to Biden's open border policies. There are other issues that most Americans find far more pressing and abortion is not even in the the top ten, except in your book of course. Yes, let's have more abortions while this country is going to pot under the current administration.

Rel

Yes Dirk, we should blame Trump for appointing SCOTUS judges who lied in their confirmation process that Roe should stand. A cheap, scare tactic? You mean like the ones Trump uses on his jurors and judges? Nice deflection attempt though to bring up a right wing talking point about the border while the conversation is about abortion. And yes, abortion is among the top 10, possibly top 3, of topics most will be taking to the polls in November. Have you not been paying attention to earlier elections whereby even very red states are voting for free choice? Finally, the country is not going to pot (see example under Trump’s administration) under Biden, but is actually thriving by most objective measurements.

Dirk van Ulden

Yes Rel, in your world, pigs are still flying. In your bubble, abortion may be in the top three, but nationally, it barely is mentioned. And once again, SCOTUS did not ban abortions but returned that statutory responsibility to each state. That seems very difficult for you to understand and shows again your group-thinking mentality.

Westy

Perhaps barely mentioned in your circles Dirk, but I assure you that the people who can get pregnant, or who have a loved one who can get pregnant, are very concerned. Especially if they live in a state where politicians will cheerfully condemn them to serving as incubators, whether they want to or not.

Rel

Speaking of flying pigs, where is your mentality? Nowhere in my commentary did I assert the SCOTUS banned abortions. What I did mention is the lying that took place by the recent judges in order to be accepted by approval committees which is clearly in the records. Nationally, the topic of abortions is well within the top three after the economy and the border. Did you miss the results in Kansas, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West VA where abortion referendums were on the ballot and lost badly? Finally, my opinions are entirely my own and I do not need groups to assert my thinking.

willallen

.How can "reproductive freedom" be used to describe abortion, which is designed not to reproduce? Just shows how mass media rules.

HFAB

Thank you for your comprehensive and factual piece. How about this? Women can decide to have a baby or not. And it's no one else's business why?

Jorg

What a horrible state of affairs, Craig! What kind of “man” would rape a girl or woman, at any age, or even use any kind of force against anyone to get their sick will, - like the former EC-selected WH occupant bragged so proudly about, and is now being convicted for? And for the SCOTUS to use religion to force their sick will on women, has to be the epitome of falsehood, as if they give a hoot about life of the unborn. All they care about is their own undeserved power, using religion as an excuse, and thus dragging it down in the gutter.

And as far as abortion itself, the solution is simple: If you don’t like it, don’t have one yourself!

MichKosk

Many thoughts.

1. Roe was a terrible decision on extremely weak legal ground. There is no right to abortion in the Constitution. Even RBG acknowledged this. It should have been overturned years ago. This has nothing to do with one's position on abortion.

2. Like Craig, I disagree with many of the laws passed in other states on this issue. However, I don't live in those states and that it the price we pay living in a Constitutional Republic. Those who feel strongly on this issue would do better putting efforts toward lobbying for change in those states, not on the national level.

3. There will never be "national legislation affirming bodily autonomy and medical decision-making freedom". Dems had control of both houses and the presidency and never codified Roe. Why? They loved the political wedge issue. Though the idea certainly is intriguing -perhaps such a national law would have prevented Biden from issuing his unconstitutional OSHA vaccine mandates. I assume Craig is consistent in his wanting "bodily autonomy" and "medical decision making freedom" for all, including not being forced to take an experimental shot to keep your job?

4. Biden and the Democrats are not friends to women and girls. The recent Title IX revisions including "gender identity" rather than just sex as a protected class open the doors for boys and men to compete against girls and women in sports in HS and college, and for men and boys to violate privacy in girls' locker rooms. In California, men who claim to be women are housed in women's prisons, some raping and impregnating incarcerated women- what is your take on that kind of "cruelty" or do those women not matter?

It is interesting though, Craig that suddenly in this column you know what a woman is. (Hint: the SEX category that can become pregnant and might be affected by abortion laws. It is not a "feeling".)

Jorg

So, MichKosk, with what kind of authority do you think that women shouldn’t have the right to be in control of their own body, a right that men have, except for those poor baby boys being circumcised against their will, considered child abuse of the worst kind in more progressive countries, where also rape is considered the epitome of lack of manhood, while abortion is considered a basic human right?

MichKosk

Your question is so oddly written that I don't understand what you are asking, but I am very consistent on the bodily autonomy issue. I believe abortion should be mostly legal with restrictions later in the pregnancy. Europe seems to be pretty reasonable on this. (Like I said, nothing to do with the fact that Roe was a terrible decision from a constitutional perspective) And I am against routine non-medically indicated circumcision of baby (or minor) boys. (And girls, but they already have that right in the US) Got anything else?

Not So Common

Jorg, a woman can have full control over their bodies, piercing, mutilatiion, tattoos, weight gain, unprotected sex etc... but once the woman creates another "life" it should no longer be her choice to kill the baby inside her. The baby inside her is an independent life and should be protected at all costs. To act like murder, and one's own life is more valuable than another life is shortsighted. The woman had a chance and "made a selfish CHOICE" to have unprotected sex and she should now own the responsibility that comes with bad decisions. Being inconvenienced for nine months is a small price to pay for her irresponsible decision. I'm surprised any father would support abortion after being blessed and witnessing the miracle of, birth, life and fatherhood.

Jorg

NotSo: And what about those girls and women that have been raped, - isn't those we are mainly talking about? Get it now?

kt2062

An embryo or even an early fetus cannot survive outside the womb. It is not a person.

It is interesting that these draconian laws only punish the woman. A man is 50% responsible for a pregnancy. These anti-choice laws should stipulate that the father--confirmed by DNA testing if necessary--is required to provide financial support for the child for at least 18 years.If he does not, he goes to prison because this is child abuse.

Jorg

kt2062: Yes, so logical, yet so hard to comprehend for the women haters! In rape cases, though, the rapist is 100% responsible, even if he is a close relative!

Westy

Again you use the word "inconvenience" for pregnancy. Did you even read the column to which you are responding? I suspect not. It contains many examples of the dangers posed by pregnancy, and it does not even touch on many other potential consequences that are less than life threatening. No one should be forced to endure a medical procedure that they do not wish to have. Would you be okay with being legally mandated to donate a kidney or bone marrow? Are you even a blood donor? I submit that you know nothing of "inconvenience" and death.

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